Hi, here is more news that has since aired on the authenticity of the allegation:

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,18669046%255E7583,00.html

"Initial investigations by researchers for a US congressional committee have identified the site at Sujiatun as a hospital, where it is suspected organ harvesting occurs but on nowhere near the scale claimed"

Now, if there is no concentration camp, rather isolated instances of abuse and irregularity contrary to Chinese law, then there exists a very different reality than what's alleged.

The congressional committee on International relations, Asia Pacific subcommittee has been contacted. However they seem to be unwilling to help. It may be our government's wish to remain ambiguous on this issue.

My opinion is if this allegation is false, we need to make that clear, so we in the West can not be accused of allowing our ambiguity to be exploited for some nefarious, well-timed, political indictment.

Looks like efforts may be needed to make FOIA request to congressional committee. Private citizens without substantial resource and time will likely meet a lost cause.

There are also many questionable issues surround this allegation:

- Many details about the alleged camp site appears to be lifted from the hospital website's About page, including the alleged number of victims, 6000, which is part of the admission statistics published by the hospital in 2005 (2nd paragraph of About page).

http://world.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_load?lp=zt_en&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thrombusres-cn.net%2Fmyjs%2Fmyjs.htm

- Hong Kong newspaper TaKungPao investigated the allegations and came up empty:
1) Reporters visited the hospital; the only underground structure found is the septic tank:

http://world.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?lp=zt_en&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.takungpao.com%2Fnews%2F06%2F03%2F31%2FZM-545907.htm

2) Reporters contacted Lanzhou University, but alleged arrested students' names do not exists in student registry:

http://world.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?lp=zt_en&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.takungpao.com%2Fnews%2F06%2F03%2F27%2FZM-543827.htm

- It appears the surprise discovery of an underground tunnel built by japanese army during 1905-1920 period, back in August 2005 could be the inspiration for this twist of fact.

The tunnel was sealed up by the Japanese then and unknown until it was discovered by a photographer from the 918 WWII museum working in Sujiatun.

http://news.sohu.com/20050812/n226651351.shtml

When it was discovered in 2005 the tunnel was half *under water*, above link has a picture of it so everyone can get a good idea how this tunnel can, before its discovery in 2001, hold 6000 people,
plus an army of skilled transplant surgeons, nurses, 500-700 jail guards - equipment, rations, and supplies for nearly 10,000 people - all of them eating drinking defecating on top of each other.

And the amazing thing is Sujiatun is a populated close suburb of Shenyang city, with over 150 foreign company and 50-60 foreign family too - "nobody goes in and out of the concentration camp"?

More info about the tunnel, including dimension of the facility:

http://www.u-web.cn/PersonalPCSite/complex562_detail.jsp?itemid=175862&contenttype=TextImage&isindex=0&indexchannelid=-1

"after jumping down and passing two holes, we arrive at the entrance of the underground facility. The hallway is 2 meters long and only wide enough for one person. After the hallway is a wider 8 square meter area. After 5 meters we arrrive at 3 meter wide, 2 meter tall underground structure. Cement covers the walls, it's flooded with water 1 meter deep. the structure is about 4 meter under ground, with some of the walls crumbling.

According to Wang TsenJie who discovered it, from above ground estimation it is 2000 meter long [with widest point @ 3 meter], half completely flooded. Water is clear with fish that have no eyes. Some ammunition and human remains have been found [human remain from WWII.]"

(get help from http://world.altavista.com if you can't read Chinese.)

(Just for comparison Guantanamo Bay is a huge base, and it only holds 700 detainees.)    

•  bobby fletcher

Wow. What a piece of disinformation. It starts out nice, like someone wanting to actually know the truth of the situation, and quickly degenerates into an orgy of propaganda.

Let's do a quick examination of the main source: The Ta Kung Pao newspaper. The Wikipedia (banned in China) entry on this Hong Kong-based paper doesn't waste time and starts by describing it as, "Highly regarded as the mouthpiece of Communist Party of China..."

Remarkable too that this piece (with slight variations) is being circulated among many different blogs; we came across it about 2 weeks ago for the first time. Could it perhaps be the unsubtle work of the CCP's internet propaganda officers?

**Sigh**

What else can perpetrators of such an atrocity do when the truth starts coming out, but deny?

Spreading such deceptive nonsense (ie. acting to prevent a real investigation from happening) puts some of the Sujiatun blood on your hands too. Please stop immediately, for your own sake as well as that of the victims.

(We considered deleting the posting, but we will leave it as with context it amounts to quite an incriminating piece -- we welcome our readership to do further research)    

•  Jan and Cindy

(I sent you guys a separate email.)

Hi, it's very convinenet to go for the messenger when you have no answer, right?

I'm an American. I'm not Chinese, as many Taiwanese-Americans would tell you. The only reason I looked into this is because I'm tired of all this Falun Gong crap.

Beyond that I will be glad to answer any question you have. Just email me.

Makina, I was so moved by your "try harder to let the truth be know", I decided to look for government agency that can help.

BTW, I found out that we have a consulet near Sujiatun in Shenyang. So I called them and asked them about this allegation.

They categorically deny it. If you don't believe me you can call them yoursleves.

Be sure to let them know you are an US citizen, and you wish to speak to an American officer in US Citizen's Services. Here's their phone number:

(86-24) 2322-1198

Foreign consulates have the responsiblity to provide services to its citizens, including economic, cultural, local news and events, provide advise on traveling.

They reassured me there is no concentration camp in Sujiatun, and it would be safe for US citizens to travel to that part of China.

I would recommend that you call them, they will give you a satisfactory answer.    

•  bobby fletcher

Dear "Sunday service in Xinzheng,"

So far, there is no message, as far as we can tell.

Please resend your email. It did not come through. We're hoping that within you let us know more about yourself, because for now all we know is that you host a blog last updated in 2004 telling us "that religious freedom does exist in China." We have to highlight that this severely harms your credibility. We would be happy to direct you to multiple sources such as the UN that clearly indicate that this is not the case.

We will take you up on the suggesting of calling the consulate, because if what you wrote is true, they need a severe talking to. What they said is misleading -- severely misleading because the only credible investigation that has thus far been done into the Sujiatun issue tells us an opposite story, that such a camp does -- or did -- indeed exist. We welcome an independent, international team of researchers to look into the issue themselves.

It's no secret that the CCP has allowed for organ harvesting from those it considers "undesirable" for whatever reason, that a policy exists to allow for "economic gain" from such people, whatever the means.

It's no secret that the CCP state security apparatus is working to totally eradicate Falun Gong -- and as part of this process practitioners are seen less than human. Authorities treat practitioners in whatever way they please. These facts alone warrant thorough independent investigation.

We welcome you to further conversation through email.    

•  Jan and Cindy

...    

•  Anonymous

Jan, now that we have propertly communicated via email, I think you owe me an apology.

I'm sure it is emotionally satisfying to accused others of being agent/spy/whatever, when you have no answer for the facts cited.

All my citations are publically available, if you have any scruples about them feel free to contact the newspaper or government agency.

Compare that with Epoch Times' unverifiable, single-sourced "witness"...    

•  bobby fletcher

Charles,

(1) I considered deleting your post again, but I will leave it for the sake of "freedom of speech." Please, let's leave it at that; I'd rather not have to ask again.

(2) I have no idea if you are a "spy" or not. I apologise if you feel accused by us of this. Our intent was to identify your message as serving as CCP disinformation, intended or not. I do believe that spreading information that reduces the chances of a real, independent investigation, one that can happen soon before there is time for all the "evidence" to be destroyed, is simply wrong.

(3) Apart from the Australian source (which properly suggests there should be a thorough investigation), the remainder are CCP-controlled sources. There is little less credible than that.

(4) We are working overtime to encourage governments and non-governmental organizations to demand an independent investigation, so yes, we are contacting governments as well as many different people.

(5) I sincerely ask you to look back at our email discussion and note that there are many answers to what you have written -- particularly with respect to how burden of proof is reversed in cases like this. I will add this info in a comment below.

(6) Further contact should definitely be by email.    

•  Jan and Cindy

US State Dept. investigators find no evidence of "Sujiatun concentration camp":

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060415/pl_afp/uschinasectpolitics_060415004729

"Officers and staff from our embassy in Beijing and consulate in Shenyang have visited the area and the specific site mentioned in these reports on two separate occasions," McCormack said.

"In these visits the officers were allowed to tour the entire facility and grounds and found no evidence that the site is being used for any function other than as a normal public hospital."    

•  bobby fletcher

Ah Charles, again...

You forgot to include the next line in the article you reference:

"Despite such a finding, State Department spokesman Sean McCormack told reporters Friday that Washington has taken the Falun Gong's charges "seriously" and has urged the Chinese government to probe the claims."

Of course, we do not really believe that the regime will invesitigate itself. But, the statement does indicate that the report is not "case closed" as Charles would have us believe.

Long before the tour we knew that the camp was liqidated. These findings are not a surprise.

It's worth reading this article on the topic.

A note to readers: Charles generally uses "good" sources to quote from in his posts, but he is highly selective about what he chooses to mention. We recommend you take a look at the original articles and videos in question. Here is another example: on one of his blogs he misuses the excellent documentary The Tank Man to "prove" that there was no Tiananmen Square massacre. We recommend that you watch the documentary, which is online here, and decide for yourselves.    

•  Jan and Cindy